16:28:38 <jgraham> foolip: Thanks :)
16:29:21 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/01/13-webdriver-irc
16:29:24 <foolip> jgraham: Markdown is easy, right :)
16:29:25 <jgraham> RRSAgent: Stop
16:29:26 * RRSAgent is not logging
16:29:45 <jgraham> foolip: It's not markdown, that's the problem ;)
16:30:38 <foolip> jgraham: yes, I realize, but what to call the various things that aren't quite HTML and a bit like Markdown. Wiki markup in this case I guess.
16:46:36 <AutomatedTester> Meeting: WebDriver January 2021
16:46:52 <AutomatedTester> Chair: AutomatedTester
16:47:20 <AutomatedTester> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2021-01-BiDi
16:47:32 <AutomatedTester> Scribe: David Burns
16:47:38 <AutomatedTester> ScribeNick: AutomatedTester
16:48:02 <AutomatedTester> RRSAgent: create minutes v2
16:48:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/13-webdriver-minutes.html AutomatedTester
16:48:37 <AutomatedTester> RRSAgent: make logs public
16:48:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request, AutomatedTester
17:01:34 <jgraham> PRESENT+
17:01:35 <brwalder> present+
17:01:39 <mathiasbynens> present+
17:01:40 <shengfa> present+
17:01:42 * jgraham sorry!
17:01:44 <whimboo> present+
17:01:49 <AutomatedTester> present+
17:02:01 <jgraham> RRSAgent: start
17:02:01 * RRSAgent is logging
17:02:10 <jgraham> RRSAgent: make minutes v2
17:02:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/13-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
17:02:17 <Honza> present+
17:02:31 <foolip> present+
17:02:45 <foolip> Is incoming audio choppy for anyone else?
17:02:56 <mathiasbynens> audio seems fine here
17:03:03 <mathiasbynens> present+
17:03:03 <jgraham> present+
17:03:09 <jgraham> Meeting: WebDriver January 2021
17:03:13 <jgraham> Chair: AutomatedTester
17:03:18 <jgraham> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2021-01-BiDi
17:03:22 <Honza> present+
17:03:27 <jgraham> Scribe: David Burns
17:03:38 <jgraham> RRSAgent: create minutes v2
17:03:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/13-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
17:04:07 <jgraham> present+ bwalder
17:04:13 <jgraham> present+ whimboo
17:04:26 <foolip> Cool, Firefox audio is much better than the native app
17:04:34 <jgraham> present+ shengfa
17:04:35 <brwalder> @jgraham "brwalder"
17:04:48 * jgraham oops, sorry
17:05:07 <jgraham> present- bwalder
17:05:12 * jgraham no idea if that works
17:05:18 <jgraham> present+ brwalder
17:05:24 <jgraham> RRSAgent: create minutes v2
17:05:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/13-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
17:06:05 <AutomatedTester> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2021-01-BiDi
17:07:01 <drousso> present+
17:07:08 <jimevans> present+
17:07:33 * jgraham kind of you to make sure Firefox's audo quality made it into the minutes, foolip ;)
17:07:57 <foolip> jgraham: spread the word!
17:08:03 <AutomatedTester> present+
17:08:18 <foolip> present+
17:08:42 <jgraham> q?
17:08:42 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:08:47 <shengfa> present+
17:09:55 <AutomatedTester> Topic: Follows from last meeting
17:10:33 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: nothing needs to be mentioned here, all items are later agenda items
17:11:10 <AutomatedTester> Topic: Working Group Charter
17:11:26 * jgraham do you want me to scribe this part?
17:11:36 <jgraham> ScribeNick: jgraham
17:11:45 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: WG is now out of charter
17:12:26 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: We need to recharter. Floated the idea of WG vs CG. Strong opinions in favour of WG.
17:13:04 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: It's on me to take the next steps here; need to reach out to MikeSmith and plh to get the process going.
17:13:11 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: Major deliverables?
17:13:23 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: webdriver-bidi is one
17:13:34 <foolip> q+
17:13:34 * Zakim sees foolip on the speaker queue
17:13:42 <foolip> q-
17:13:42 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:14:04 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: Also one more WebDriver/HTTP release, want shadow DOM parts in a spec
17:14:19 <jgraham> foolip: Two deliverables most likely?
17:14:55 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: Yes. Need to check that people are on board with this. Needs AC review. Everyone needs to be in agreement.
17:14:58 <jgraham> q+
17:14:58 * Zakim sees jgraham on the speaker queue
17:15:33 <jgraham> ack jgraham
17:15:33 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:15:40 <foolip> q+
17:15:40 * Zakim sees foolip on the speaker queue
17:15:42 <jgraham> jgraham: I agree with that scope
17:16:16 <jgraham> ACTION: AutomatedTester to send an email to the group to include people not present in the telecon
17:16:17 * RRSAgent records action 1
17:16:22 <AutomatedTester> scribenick: AutomatedTester
17:16:45 <AutomatedTester> ack foolip
17:16:47 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:17:04 <jgraham> ScribeNick: jgraham
17:17:19 <jgraham> foolip: Does bidi being a deliverable mean it has to be on the rec track right away
17:17:23 <jgraham> foolip: ?
17:17:43 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: Yes, but timeframe is up for discussion.
17:19:00 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: Currently no staff support, timezone issues. Could work outside the WG structure for a bit, but miss out on the patent policy protection.
17:20:08 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: Our work fits into the living standard with snapshots model, can have rolling time-based deliverables. Need everyone to agree that we're working toward the latest draft not the previous Rec.
17:20:54 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:20:54 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:20:54 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: If you have concerns, please message me. Snapshot model seems close to what we previously did anyway.
17:21:04 <jgraham> ScribeNick: AutomatedTester:
17:21:07 <jgraham> ScribeNick: AutomatedTester
17:21:17 <AutomatedTester> topic: Spec status updates
17:21:28 <AutomatedTester> script module https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/pull/70
17:21:28 * github-bot Because I don't want to spam github issues unnecessarily, I won't comment in that github issue unless you write "Github: <issue-url> | none" (or "Github issue: ..."/"Github topic: ...").
17:21:57 <AutomatedTester> log module https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/pull/73
17:21:58 * github-bot Because I don't want to spam github issues unnecessarily, I won't comment in that github issue unless you write "Github: <issue-url> | none" (or "Github issue: ..."/"Github topic: ...").
17:22:15 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: there are currently 2 spec PRs up currently
17:22:40 <AutomatedTester> ... they have some feedback and there are a bit rough and are ready for a new set of reviews from everyone
17:22:58 <AutomatedTester> ... so please can everyone take a look and comment
17:23:19 <AutomatedTester> foolip: Can you give us a tl;dr?
17:23:57 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: The script module doesnt have script execution yet. It gives you the realms and the events that go with it
17:24:41 <AutomatedTester> ... for the log module has 1 type of log event for most things that would appear in the devtools console
17:24:53 <AutomatedTester> ... note: it doesnt do performance log events
17:25:09 <AutomatedTester> ... and network log events
17:25:45 <AutomatedTester> ... and it's the same feature set as in CDP and hopefully same in other protocols
17:25:55 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:25:55 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:26:14 <foolip> q+q+
17:26:14 * Zakim sees q+ on the speaker queue
17:26:25 <AutomatedTester> ack q+
17:26:25 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:26:59 <drousso> q+
17:26:59 * Zakim sees drousso on the speaker queue
17:27:00 <AutomatedTester> foolip: on the script module, would you need to know the script realm or would you need to know the browser realm
17:27:08 <AutomatedTester> ... do they map 1:1?
17:27:25 <brwalder> i think we previously agreed script APIs should accept a browsing context ID
17:27:27 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I think it does and it makes sense here
17:28:37 <AutomatedTester> ... off topic: THere are some "exciting" issues with the browsing context. E.g. how site isolation plays with this
17:28:42 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:28:43 * Zakim sees drousso on the speaker queue
17:29:50 <AutomatedTester> drousso: For items that take more than 1 argument how will this work?
17:31:05 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: the way it is currently described it only takes one and I know that console.log  can take a lot of arguments
17:31:57 <AutomatedTester> drousso: in the webkit we have 1 message for [missed type] so would we have an extra message for the error?
17:32:16 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: for the spec we would only want 1 message
17:33:11 <AutomatedTester> drousso: [asks questions about webkit internals and errors]
17:33:36 <drousso> by "internals" i mean logs created by C++ that are still exposed to Web Inspector
17:33:36 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: how internal errors are handled should be sent but it is currently not in the spec.
17:33:54 <drousso> just as a differentiation between the page calling `console.log` and something in C++ calling `Console::log` (or whatever)
17:34:09 * foolip nods, this seems sensible
17:34:26 <AutomatedTester> ... I think we would need to have more of a conversation about how this works at a later stage
17:34:32 <drousso> ^ +1
17:34:41 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:34:41 * Zakim sees drousso on the speaker queue
17:34:46 <AutomatedTester> ack drousso
17:34:46 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:35:10 <jgraham> jgraham: Later we will add more log types for common things and have a mechanism for UA extension of log types
17:35:29 <AutomatedTester> topic: Handling events the client might miss
17:35:43 <AutomatedTester> https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/72
17:35:43 * github-bot Because I don't want to spam github issues unnecessarily, I won't comment in that github issue unless you write "Github: <issue-url> | none" (or "Github issue: ..."/"Github topic: ...").
17:35:55 <AutomatedTester> github https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/72
17:35:55 * github-bot Because I don't want to spam github issues unnecessarily, I won't comment in that github issue unless you write "Github: <issue-url> | none" (or "Github issue: ..."/"Github topic: ...").
17:36:22 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: one of the problems we have with the current spec is event sending model is
17:36:33 <AutomatedTester> ... something happens... we check filters and we send it
17:36:52 <AutomatedTester> ... unfortunately this is not what current protocol;s do
17:37:15 <AutomatedTester> ... for console logs they create a buffer and when a connection occurs they flush this buffer
17:37:24 <AutomatedTester> ... and this difference is problematic
17:38:21 <AutomatedTester> ... especially for transitioning clients (e.g. CDP)
17:39:15 <AutomatedTester> ... so the implementation of this seems obvious. We figure out what we want to send when clients join
17:39:33 <AutomatedTester> ... and I am not suggesting that we need to buffer everything, just events we care about
17:40:11 <AutomatedTester> ... In the current model we need to know how to apply filters and then send it
17:40:32 <AutomatedTester> ... and we can do it with a [missed algorithm name]
17:40:57 <AutomatedTester> ... and we the PR hopefully allows us to do that
17:41:31 <AutomatedTester> ... please can people read. If others have a different approach that would be good to hear
17:41:39 <shengfa> q+
17:41:39 * Zakim sees shengfa on the speaker queue
17:41:57 <AutomatedTester> ack shengfa
17:41:57 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:42:25 <AutomatedTester> shengfa: a question around filtering of top level browsing contexxt, what happens in those sub contexts
17:42:54 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: we would filter everything in the sub contexts based on the filters in the top level browsing contexts
17:42:58 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:42:58 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:43:11 <foolip> q+
17:43:11 * Zakim sees foolip on the speaker queue
17:43:38 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: this is likely to be next task so please if you can give feedback soon that would ge great
17:43:41 <AutomatedTester> ack foolip
17:43:41 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:44:21 <AutomatedTester> foolip: are you going to be make this fairly general or do it per event we care
17:45:17 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I think the buffer will be specific to logging and then have general words for other things but not actually have that
17:45:33 <AutomatedTester> ... and then have speciifc prose for where we need to reconstruct events
17:46:23 <AutomatedTester> ... I am not sure how it will really look like until I write it down
17:46:26 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:46:26 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:46:48 <AutomatedTester> Topic: Forward compatibility
17:46:56 <AutomatedTester> https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/79 + https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/78
17:46:57 * github-bot Because I don't want to spam github issues unnecessarily, I won't comment in that github issue unless you write "Github: <issue-url> | none" (or "Github issue: ..."/"Github topic: ...").
17:47:23 <AutomatedTester> foolip: This is an FYI for people to please go read these issues
17:48:15 * jgraham AutomatedTester: we have one more agenda item if there's time
17:48:26 <AutomatedTester> ... I have never done a protocol before mostly webidl but the main thing is that we make sure that things are for things
17:48:46 <AutomatedTester> ... but it would be good to make sure that things are forward compatible
17:49:11 <AutomatedTester> ... and is CDDL going to be good enough or can we use brwalder work arounds
17:49:21 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:49:21 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:49:54 <jgraham> FWIW I think that's a reasonable soution. It's kind of annoying to have to annotate everything, but I don't see another option
17:50:10 <AutomatedTester> topic: wpt status update
17:50:19 <foolip> Alright, let's go with that unless we hear from anyone else.
17:50:40 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: this is more of a question rather than a topic
17:50:59 <AutomatedTester> ... I know there was work on wpt for webdriver bidi last quarter
17:51:08 <AutomatedTester> ... foolip is there an update?
17:51:37 <foolip> Tests written so far are https://github.com/sadym-chromium/WebDriverBiDiServerExperiments/tree/main/bidiClient
17:51:44 <AutomatedTester> foolip: so maksim has been working on this and here is a link
17:52:41 <AutomatedTester> ... This prototype is written in nodejs and we have also started looking at the pytest asyncio and await
17:52:47 <shengfa> q+
17:52:47 * Zakim sees shengfa on the speaker queue
17:52:54 <shengfa> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/pull/26510
17:52:54 * github-bot Because I don't want to spam github issues unnecessarily, I won't comment in that github issue unless you write "Github: <issue-url> | none" (or "Github issue: ..."/"Github topic: ...").
17:52:57 <AutomatedTester> ... we know that there needs to be work on wpt to make it work
17:53:48 <jgraham> q+
17:53:48 * Zakim sees shengfa, jgraham on the speaker queue
17:53:54 <AutomatedTester> ... how urgent and how important is this? knowing how quickly people are going to be implement anything
17:54:22 <shengfa> sadym
17:54:45 <AutomatedTester> sadym: I have nothing further to add
17:54:48 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:54:48 * Zakim sees shengfa, jgraham on the speaker queue
17:55:18 <AutomatedTester> shengfa: before the break, I created the RFC for adding a websocket to WPT
17:55:43 <AutomatedTester> ... and I have seen that there has been un update to pytest to 4.5
17:56:12 <AutomatedTester> ... and after pytest 6 it has dep on asyncio
17:56:16 <jgraham> ack shengfa
17:56:17 * Zakim sees jgraham on the speaker queue
17:56:25 <AutomatedTester> ... I am working on this to do clean up
17:56:30 <AutomatedTester> ack jgraham
17:56:30 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:56:50 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: this sounds this great.
17:57:09 <AutomatedTester> ... in wpt we hope to drop py2 support within the next month
17:57:37 <AutomatedTester> ... the RFC is probably ready to merge as there havent been any comments but I will double check it ASAP
17:58:05 <AutomatedTester> ... as for tests are we happy to be sharing tests
17:58:09 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:58:09 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
17:59:20 <jgraham> RRSAgent: Make minutes v2
17:59:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/13-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
17:59:50 <jgraham> RRSAgent: stop
17:59:50 * RRSAgent is not logging
17:59:59 <AutomatedTester> thanks jgraham :)
18:00:42 <AutomatedTester> btw my offtopic item was https://twitter.com/SeleniumHQ/status/1349391737668706304
18:00:47 <AutomatedTester> foolip: ^
18:03:33 <jgraham> RRSAgent: bye
18:03:33 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/01/13-webdriver-actions.rdf :
18:03:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AutomatedTester to send an email to the group to include people not present in the telecon [1]
18:03:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/01/13-webdriver-irc#T17-16-16
18:03:42 <jgraham> Zakim, bye
18:03:42 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been jgraham, brwalder, mathiasbynens, shengfa, whimboo, AutomatedTester, Honza, foolip, bwalder, drousso, jimevans
18:03:52 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: Oh that's super interesting
20:15:19 <jimevans> in WPT webdriver tests, how can i see the HTTP traffic actually sent over the wire