#webdriver

logbot has shutdown

10:11

AutomatedTester

thank jgraham !
15:56

RRSAgent

logging to w3.org/2021/06/09-webdriver-irc
15:57

jgraham

Meeting: WebDriver-BiDi
15:57

jgraham

Chair: AutomatedTester
15:57

» AutomatedTester checks which name I am herrer
15:58

jgraham

Agenda: w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2021-06-BiDi#Agenda
15:58

jgraham

ScribeNick: AutomatedTester
15:58

» AutomatedTester sweet! No extra chars via element
16:02

jgraham

present+
16:03

brwalder

present+
16:03

cb

present+
16:03

jimevans

present+
16:03

jdescottes

present+
16:03

Honza

present+
16:03

jgraham

RRSAgent: Make minutes v2
16:03

RRSAgent

I have made the request to generate w3.org/2021/06/09-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
16:03

jgraham

RRSAgent: Make logs public
16:03

RRSAgent

I have made the request, jgraham
16:03

whimboo

present+
16:04

AutomatedTester

topic: Web Extensions Community Group
16:05

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): this is a FYI item
16:05

AutomatedTester

... I think that this is relevant to this group as there are a lot of similarities between API surface for webextensions and bidi
16:06

AutomatedTester

... e.g. sandbox JS execution
16:06

foolip

Regrets for the meeting happening now, I have other stuff I need to take care of I'm afraid.
16:06

AutomatedTester

AutomatedTester_ (IRC): Is there any documentation this group can read up on?
16:07

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): I don't †hink anything has been released yet... I am mentioning as I think there is potential for collaboration between our group and their group
16:07

brwalder

Charter: github.com/w3c/webextensions/blob/main/charter.md
16:08

AutomatedTester

q?
16:08

» Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
16:08

AutomatedTester

topic: Gecko implementation progress
16:08

drousso

present+
16:08

simonstewart

present+
16:08

AutomatedTester

Design doc: docs.google.com/document/d/1Of3ZhWI…zuG_hMpmTK7Nv1a9_E_VsnBWtD2nD8/edit
16:09

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): The gecko team have sent out an intent to prototype webdriver bidi
16:09

whimboo

groups.google.com/a/mozilla.org/g/d…atform/c/kASQnIcU9Nc/m/v77WY5siBwAJ
16:09

AutomatedTester

... we would love to have feedback on our design document
16:10

AutomatedTester

... we would love to hear from people implementing the client maintainers to make sure this makes sense
16:10

AutomatedTester

... any and all feedback is welcome!
16:10

AutomatedTester

q?
16:10

» Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
16:12

AutomatedTester

topic: context.navigate
16:12

AutomatedTester

github: w3c/webdriver-bidi #93
16:12

» github-bot OK, I'll post this discussion to w3c/webdriver-bidi #93 (Define commands and events related to navigation).
16:13

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): the next three items are are status updates and requests for feedback
16:13

AutomatedTester

... foolip (IRC) has reviewed the html parts and hope to get that landed soon
16:13

AutomatedTester

... and this is the last call for the bidi to get this landed soon
16:14

AutomatedTester

... and there has been discussion about how the event ordering should be compared to the command returning
16:14

AutomatedTester

...[gives example around load event]
16:15

AutomatedTester

... this is important to know when a navigation has happened by the test or by something else
16:15

AutomatedTester

... fragments are a special case as they are synchronous
16:16

AutomatedTester

...[describes how things could return]
16:16

AutomatedTester

q?
16:16

» Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
16:17

AutomatedTester

github-bot (IRC): end topic
16:17

jgraham

github-bot: end topic
16:17

» github-bot Successfully commented on w3c/webdriver-bidi #93
16:17

AutomatedTester

topic: context.reload
16:18

AutomatedTester

github-bot (IRC): w3c/webdriver-bidi #107
16:18

» github-bot Because I don't want to spam github issues unnecessarily, I won't comment in that github issue unless you write "Github: <issue-url> | none" (or "Github issue: ..."/"Github topic: ...").
16:18

» jgraham is using IRC just to make controlling the bots easier
16:18

AutomatedTester

github: w3c/webdriver-bidi #107
16:18

» github-bot OK, I'll post this discussion to w3c/webdriver-bidi #107 (Specify a browsingContext.reload command).
16:18

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): there is a PR for reloading pages
16:18

AutomatedTester

... I think this is largely straight forward
16:19

AutomatedTester

... one feature that is in CDP is force reload
16:19

AutomatedTester

... and HTML spec does not describe what a "force reload is"
16:19

AutomatedTester

... [describes cases that are not obvious]
16:20

AutomatedTester

... all browsers have this so I am assuming this is going to be simple but it could turn out to be not interoperable
16:20

drousso

q+
16:20

» Zakim sees drousso on the speaker queue
16:21

simonstewart

q+
16:21

» Zakim sees drousso, simonstewart on the speaker queue
16:21

simonstewart

q-
16:21

» Zakim sees drousso on the speaker queue
16:21

AutomatedTester

... I have noted this in the PR as I think it's important to know but I don't think people are going to change how their browser works
16:21

AutomatedTester

q?
16:21

» Zakim sees drousso on the speaker queue
16:21

AutomatedTester

ack drousso
16:21

» Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
16:22

brwalder

q+
16:22

» Zakim sees brwalder on the speaker queue
16:22

AutomatedTester

drousso (IRC): I just wanted to mention in safari that a force reload means reload and ignore all the caches
16:22

whimboo

q+
16:22

» Zakim sees brwalder, whimboo on the speaker queue
16:22

AutomatedTester

ack brwalder
16:22

» Zakim sees whimboo on the speaker queue
16:23

AutomatedTester

brwalder (IRC): jgraham (IRC) I think you mentioned that force reload is in cdp but I can't see it, I just see ignore cache
16:23

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): I think I assumed they are the same
16:24

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): I can see there cases where "ignore the cache" might not mean what we think it is
16:24

AutomatedTester

ack whimboo
16:24

» Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
16:24

AutomatedTester

whimboo (IRC):are we only allowing this for top level browser context to match browsers
16:25

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): I assumed it was any context and I don't think I have that limitation in the PR
16:25

AutomatedTester

... is "reload a frame" a thing?
16:26

AutomatedTester

... [no replies]
16:26

Honza

Yes, there is "Reload this Frame" action in Firefox
16:26

AutomatedTester

q?
16:26

» Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
16:26

drousso

that exists in Safari too
16:26

drousso

i think 😅
16:26

AutomatedTester

github-bot: end topic
16:26

» github-bot Successfully commented on w3c/webdriver-bidi #107
16:26

drousso

nooooooo the shame 😭
16:27

AutomatedTester

topic : context.traverseHistory
16:27

AutomatedTester

github: w3c/webdriver-bidi #109
16:27

» github-bot I can't set a github URL because you haven't started a topic.
16:27

AutomatedTester

github: w3c/webdriver-bidi #109
16:27

» github-bot I can't set a github URL because you haven't started a topic.
16:27

jgraham

topic: context.traverseHistory
16:27

AutomatedTester

github: w3c/webdriver-bidi #109
16:27

» github-bot OK, I'll post this discussion to w3c/webdriver-bidi #109 (Add a browsingContext.traverseHistory command).
16:28

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): The third change is moving through history
16:28

AutomatedTester

... I have a draft PR for the html spec changes we need
16:29

AutomatedTester

... the model here is that you can move via a delta
16:29

AutomatedTester

... this is different to CDP but the clients do this
16:29

AutomatedTester

... and it is closer to what cypress does as other tools just have back/forward
16:30

AutomatedTester

... and since there are things in the bfcache there might not be events that are returned to the user
16:30

AutomatedTester

q?
16:30

» Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
16:30

» jgraham relevant comments are the best comments
16:30

AutomatedTester

github-bot: end topic
16:31

» github-bot Successfully commented on w3c/webdriver-bidi #109
16:31

AutomatedTester

topic: Stale Element Reference
16:31

AutomatedTester

github: w3c/webdriver #1594
16:31

» github-bot OK, I'll post this discussion to w3c/webdriver #1594 (Consider removal of stale element reference).
16:31

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): this is a question that is for all webdriver
16:32

AutomatedTester

... I understand there was a distinction in the past
16:33

simonstewart

q+
16:33

» Zakim sees simonstewart on the speaker queue
16:33

AutomatedTester

... the question is what is the expected lifetime...
16:34

AutomatedTester

ack simonstewart
16:34

» Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
16:35

AutomatedTester

simonstewart (IRC): The original plan was we kept a cache in the window global.
16:35

AutomatedTester

... if you navigate away and come back it would nuke our cache
16:36

AutomatedTester

... in watir and that they will do a lookup again but selenium doesnt do that and assumes the user knows what is the best wayt to handle this
16:36

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): i think that is good
16:37

AutomatedTester

... I think we need to read the webdriver spec and make sure it does what you have just said
16:37

AutomatedTester

... my inclination is to not have something similar in bidi
16:38

simonstewart

q+
16:38

» Zakim sees simonstewart on the speaker queue
16:38

AutomatedTester

... and that in bidi we have more complex objects that are returned
16:38

AutomatedTester

... and they can have large amounts of data that may get stored in a cache
16:38

AutomatedTester

ack simonstewart
16:38

» Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
16:39

AutomatedTester

simonstewart (IRC): I think it gets very interested... in webdriver http we required that they keep it instead of the client
16:40

AutomatedTester

... as the browser would know the lifecycles better than a client
16:41

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): my concern is if we return a handle and then it is gc'ed and someone tries to use it and it could return a differrent error
16:41

AutomatedTester

simonstewart (IRC): is this due to JS serialisation
16:41

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): maybe... [discusses]
16:42

AutomatedTester

simonstewart (IRC): in webdriver http we essentially wanted something that could be returned that passed going through `json.stringify`
16:42

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): [discusses JS execution and handles]
16:42

AutomatedTester

simonstewart (IRC): the original plan was due to things that lives in the DOM
16:43

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): that leads to the question about what type of references we need to keep
16:44

AutomatedTester

... one thing that I think is true in http spec but not bidi is...
16:44

AutomatedTester

... if you disconnect an element from the DOM but it's still alive then we would return staleelement reference
16:45

AutomatedTester

... but in JS the handle would still be held
16:45

AutomatedTester

... [missed a few items around usage]
16:46

AutomatedTester

action: Verify Webdriver HTTP spec matches the requirements and clarify where necessary
16:46

» RRSAgent records action 1
16:47

AutomatedTester

github-bot: end topic
16:47

» github-bot Successfully commented on w3c/webdriver #1594
16:47

AutomatedTester

topic: Please review the client
16:47

AutomatedTester

github: web-platform-tests/wpt #28381
16:47

» github-bot I can't comment on that github issue because it's not in a repository I'm allowed to comment on, which are: w3c/webdriver w3c/webdriver-bidi.
16:48

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): please review so we can get this landed soon so we can start writing wpt
16:49

AutomatedTester

topic: H2 Priorities
16:49

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): this is part question and statement
16:49

AutomatedTester

... in the spec we are now at a stage to allow parallel spec work
16:50

AutomatedTester

... I am happy to help people get started with that
16:50

AutomatedTester

... and moving forward, the next highest value task is `scriptExecution`
16:50

AutomatedTester

... and there some good easy tasks like screenshots
16:51

brwalder

aside: what does "H2" mean here?
16:51

AutomatedTester

... and other low hanging fruit
16:51

» AutomatedTester brwalder (IRC) 2nd half of the year
16:52

AutomatedTester

... [describes cases where we need to choose between cdp vs webdriver in this case]
16:52

AutomatedTester

q?
16:52

» Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
16:53

jgraham

jgrahm: Other client priorities seem to be request logging and interception, and user input (could be based on WebDriver actions? Not clear what the requirements are)
16:54

AutomatedTester

automatedtester: what about setting wpt as a priority? and moving to requiring tests for spec changes
16:54

AutomatedTester

jgraham (IRC): yes, I think we can move towards that. We haven't done it yet as there is no client
16:55

brwalder

q+
16:55

» Zakim sees brwalder on the speaker queue
16:55

jgraham

RRSAgent: make minutes v2
16:55

RRSAgent

I have made the request to generate w3.org/2021/06/09-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
16:55

AutomatedTester

... and there is no implementation as writing tests in a vacuum is hard
16:55

brwalder

Chromium impl prototype: github.com/sadym-chromium/bidiInChromeContext
16:55

AutomatedTester

ack brwalder
16:55

» Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
16:55

jgraham

RRSAgent: Make logs public
16:55

RRSAgent

I have made the request, jgraham
16:56

AutomatedTester

brwalder (IRC): there is a chromium prototype that sadym (IRC) has been working on
16:56

AutomatedTester

... it's rough but we are starting
16:56

AutomatedTester

... it doesn't do much
16:57

AutomatedTester

q?
16:57

» Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
16:57

» jgraham wonders why the minutes aren't showing up on w3.org
16:58

» jgraham also if other people get to have agenda items at this meeting it will be more fun for everyone ;)
16:59

jgraham

RRSAgent: make minutes v2
16:59

RRSAgent

I have made the request to generate w3.org/2021/06/09-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
16:59

jgraham

RRSAgent: stop
16:59

» RRSAgent is not logging
16:59

» AutomatedTester wonders if it was silenced at the beginning?
16:59

jgraham

No I'm pretty sure it's been logging
16:59

jgraham

I suspect something's broken in the backend
16:59

AutomatedTester

MikeSmith (IRC):
17:00

jgraham

MikeSmith: ^
17:00

AutomatedTester

MikeSmith (IRC): could you check in on the logging from today's meeting when you're around next
17:00

jgraham

Zakim, bye
17:00

Zakim

leaving. As of this point the attendees have been jgraham, brwalder, cb, jimevans, jdescottes, Honza, whimboo, drousso, simonstewart
17:00

jgraham

I'll leave RRSAgent here for now in case that helps, but I suspect it will probably leave at some point
17:01

AutomatedTester

I will copy over the scroll back in a bit to make sure I haven't lost anything
20:20

» RRSAgent excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed

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